Archive Record
Metadata
Accession number |
2001.036 |
Catalog Number |
2001.036.001 |
Object Name |
Audiocassette |
Date |
14 Feb 2001 |
Title |
Tillman Franks Oral History Interview |
Scope & Content |
Original tape. Interview with Tillman Franks February 14, 2001 Mr. Franks is a country music artist who initiated the Louisiana Hayride in Shreveport. He worked with numerous artists in north Louisiana. As a booking manager, he worked with Hank Williams and Elvis to promote their early careers. He was good friends with Governor Jimmie Davis. He was the business manager for singer Johnny Horton. Mr. Franks has written his autobiography, which is entitled, Tillman Franks, "I Was There When It Happened," which is co-authored by Robert Gentry. As a local professional musician, the History Center interview Mr. Franks to extend the research on Johnny Roberts, who has a collection of music at the History Center, and Bossier parish musicians. Mr. Franks provides insight into the country music scene in the Ark-La-Tex and north Louisiana, an area he terms "the magic circle," which he claims is the origin of the country music industry in America. Tape 1, Side A [1-767] [Mr. Franks]:I met Johnny Roberts. He came down to my office and sang some songs for me and played, and of course, in person that's the first time I remember him. I knew who he was when he had his song out. It was a few years after that when I met him and he had some more songs he wanted me to listen to and I listened to them and I didn't think I could do anything about them. I got to know him and be aware of him then, but that's the first time that I got to visit with him. [Mrs. Cole]:What year was that? [Mr. Franks]:I don't remember what year that was. It must have been in …I think I was with David Houston then. David was still living and it must have been in the '60s. What year did he die? [Mrs. Cole]:Not until the 90's. It was about 1990. [Mr. Franks]:It had to have been when I was with David Houston during that career and he had some more songs he sung for me. I just couldn't see anything that I could do anything with, but I got to visit with him and got to talk to him a few times after that and visit with him. But I didn't know him all that well but I was aware of the song he recorded, the song for Jimmie Davis, I Wished I Never Seen the Sunshine. That was a good song, and I think Jimmie sung it too. Johnny had a national hit out of it, but that was the only one he had. The way I remember it, he didn't write You Are My Sunshine. Paul Rice told me they had got some verses from a girl and Paul Rice really wrote the song. Charlie Mitchell recorded it but they didn't copyright it. But that's the same thing if you have proof that you did write it. They never did get copyrighted with it and when Jimmie Davis heard it, he decided to record it and bought it from Paul Rice for about $50.00 or something like that and he copyrighted it with Charlie Mitchell's name on it. Later on Charlie Mitchell's wife got sick and needed some money and Jimmie gave him about $1,500 for his part of it. So all through the years Jimmie Davis' estate now has owned You Are My Sunshine. Last year, You Are My Sunshine made more money last year than any year since it's been out because of all the jingles that are on the air now. All those little bitty cartoons and things and all. [Mrs. Cole]:Who would think it? Who would think it that it would go on television? [Mr. Franks]:Right, but hundreds of thousands…you know it was fantastic. Because they pay you a royalty on it too besides being on air. They have to pay a royalty on each one that is sold. They have little dolls or something singing You Are My Sunshine. I know for a fact that it did. I knew him, but the only dealing I had with Johnny Roberts was that I knew him back then and knew who he was and got to meet him later on when I had lots of success with David Houston. That's when it was and that's when he contacted me to listen to some more songs that he wrote at that time. [Mrs. Cole]:Tell me what about his songs did not fit your criteria? Why was it that they would not work? [Mr. Franks]:The songs that he wrote at that time, it wasn't fitting what I was doing. We was doing, well David was doing real pretty songs with a honkey tonk sound and a lot different from what we was doing and what he was writing. He was still writing kind of like the things he wrote were like I Wished I Never Seen the Sunshine. [Mrs. Cole]:Kind of an older style then? [Mr. Franks]:Yes, kind of an older style and it wouldn't fit with what we were doing then. Billy Sherrill and Glen Sutton were really up to date and we were doing some complicated songs like Baby Baby and some really swinging songs, like Stand By Your Man and they wrote Almost Persuaded and songs like that. I was doing lots of their songs then. Johnny Roberts was a real nice person and I enjoyed talking to him but I just…his songs at that time didn't fit with what we were doing. [Mrs. Cole]:He recorded Little French Sweetheart, I think at Ram Records. Was that the one at Ruston? [Mr. Franks]:Ram Records was here in Shreveport. Mira Smith owned it, that's Alton Ward's first cousin. Alton Ward married Margaret Lewis, you know, Maggie Ward. They owned Ram and they recorded lots of songs, like Jerry Kennedy's wife, Linda Brannon, recorded for them. They had some blues records out that did good for them too. [Mrs. Cole]:Do you remember Little French Sweetheart ? We have a letter that he wrote to Faron Young and asked Faron to sing it for him and Faron said it wasn't in his style it would have to be adapted. Johnny recorded it with someone called The Dixie Boys. It's called Johnny Roberts and The Dixie Boys. [Mr. Franks]:Was that on Ram? [Mrs. Cole]:Yes, I think it was. [Mr. Franks]:I don't remember the song, but I know how you can get a copy of it. If you talk to Alton Ward and Maggie Ward. They own all of Ram's products. They've got all the masters. I'm sure they will be happy to help you with all these things. Mira Smith is the head of the company and she owns it too and she produced it. [Mrs. Cole]:Good. They would be able to tell us what type of distribution it had and what kind of sales it had? [Mr. Franks]:They probably have the master of it and could tell you exactly more about the song. I don't remember the song. [Mrs. Cole]:It's on a 45 r.p.m. We did have one copy that came from the family and it's on a 45. I assume that was done in the 1960's, I'm not sure when 45's came out. [Mr. Franks]:They was doing good in the '60s. In the '60s, Mira would record lots of Ram songs. She had a pretty big record on Linda Brannon called Just Another Lie Wherever You Are. (That's Jerry Kennedy's first wife and she is the mother of his three children). Maggie would really be…Maggie could give you all the information on it. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh sure. That would be a good one to talk to. [Mr. Franks]:They have this organization they called FAME. (They had a write up in the paper this morning about it). They got that approved to build up that block around the auditorium and I'm on the Board of FAME. There's like a FAME Board and they're going to build up that area for the music business. The City Council approved it yesterday. They already have a grant from the federal government, $200,000-300,000 of grants to help build that area up. Of course, Maggie could tell you all about that song. I don't know if she would remember Johnny Roberts or not because she wasn't there at that time. She didn't come in until she won a contest that me and Johnny Horton put on and it was in 1957. They put a contest on and she won. [Mrs. Cole]:Do you ever remember Johnny Roberts singing at the Hayride? Did he ever sing at the Hayride? [Mr. Franks]:I don't remember him singing on the Hayride. The reason I don't is because he didn't sing many times down there. He wasn't a member and I don't remember him singing with Jimmie Davis or on the Hayride either one from the time I took over. Before I took over the Hayride I was playing the bass fiddle in the staff band there and I knew most of the people down there. He came down there once or twice but I could have not been there that night, and I don't remember it. [Mrs. Cole]:I brought a copy of the photograph that we have from KWKH, but you said that you could date it from the microphone. [Mr. Franks]:(Looking at photo) This looks like (from the background of the studio and that microphone) the one that was in the studio when they was over Market Street when they had the Louisiana Bank Building. KWKH was on the second floor. That looks like that studio there. You can tell by the background. [Mrs. Cole]:So it was at the KWKH studio on the second floor? [Mr. Franks]:I think this was after the Ewings bought KWKH from Henderson, W. K. Henderson you know. I think this is in the studio. His age looks about that time. [Mrs. Cole]:So that would be in the late '30's would you say? [Mr. Franks]:No, this is in the, I would say this is in the late '40's or early '50's. It's got to be looking at his age there. I would think it was pretty near that time. It might be in the early '50's or late '40's, but it wasn't before then. [Mrs. Cole]:So there was a recording program then on KWKH, a Country Music Program? [Mr. Franks]:They had a, well, at one time, they had a transcription program and they had various variety shows that they had there, some of them Lonnie Gloss and the Sugar Review and some of them played early in the morning. The Hayride wasn't on then, but they had some of the people and in the late '50's and early '60's. They had programs on in the mornings then. They played records during the day, but they had a transcription that they played and some live shows at noon, like the Sunshine Boys would play, or the Rice Brothers, but this was during that period. You can tell by the microphone and the background of the studio that's got to be I would say in the '50's. I really don't believe it was the late '40's…I would say this is the late '50's. [Mrs. Cole]:Because of that studio background, it is more like a sound stage or something like that. [Mr. Franks]:I'm sure because my office was in one of the studios when I was running the Hayride. It was usually this office here. We made an office out of it. That KWKH sign, well, it's just got to be. I'm pretty sure I'm right about that too. Really, that's definitely, I wished there were some more information that I had on it for you. [Mrs. Cole]:You told me that Jimmie Davis also had a program in the '30s. [Mr. Franks]:That's right. I would say that it was the '30s, I'm trying to get it right. It was in the early '30s and kind of the late '30s too. It must have been right at the beginning of it because W. K. Henderson owned the station then and he put Jimmie on on Saturdays. I guess it was '30 or '3l when he broadcast it once a week since it started. That's got to be, well but it wasn't here. They had a home where they had the transmitter for KWKH and had a studio out there. There wasn't any studio here. This wasn't with Jimmie Davis; this was with David Pierce. This wasn't the Jimmie Davis Show, I guarantee that. [Mrs. Cole]:Do you know when W. K. Henderson sold out to the Ewings approximately what year that was? [Mr. Franks]:I don't know if I've got it in my book (Tillman Franks "I Was There When It Happened") or not. I'll have to look up the date on it. I'll look it up and see. [Mrs. Cole]:I looked at the files at the LSUS Archives. There is some programming from W. K. Henderson and they change every fifteen minutes. [Mr. Franks]:I believe that I have it here. (Quoting from book) "W. K. Henderson owned Henderson Iron Works on Red River. On September 25, 1925 he started KWKH". That's the exact date. He got Bill Anthony to build the transmitter and the tower and that's the exact date that he bought the station. He later put Jimmie on there about once a week about 9:00 o'clock in the late 1920's. It was in late 1929, '30s or later. Jimmie went to Chicago. He bought a plane ticket and recorded with a piano and he imitated Gene Austin on it. He didn't have a style. He learned his style later on from Billy Jones. This is a picture of W. K. Henderson in the book. [Mrs. Cole]: Right, on page 17? I have your book back at the office and I've enjoyed it. Yes, I certainly have enjoyed reading it. [Mr. Franks]: You'll be able to get that information there. Well see, this is the same microphone here! [Mrs. Cole]:Agreeing. [Mr. Franks]:That's the same microphone right here. That's the same one. The background is different. They had a studio out there at the transmitter. They still owned it, The Times still owned it then, but this is when they changed the studio to the Commercial Building. That's when it was. [Mrs. Cole]:They probably just moved all the equipment with it too. [Mr. Franks]:This would be in the late '40's or early '50's. No, it's got to be in the '40's. Yes, I would say because that's when they moved there. Let's see, does it say here when they sold it. (Quoting from the book) "Henderson sold KWKH, the International Broadcast Station in 1935 they sold it to The Times". All right, that could be in the late '30s, that's probably when it is. At that particular time, Jimmie Davis was doing good. He got probably an audition that gave him a chance to sing down there and they probably put him on the air. It should be the late 1930's. He must have come out with that song. You Are My Sunshine was really popular and number one then. [Mrs. Cole]:So right after that maybe, so late '30s then. That sounds right. [Mr. Franks]: I think we got that right. See we have the dates. Robert Gentry is a historian and a lot of things that I tell him, he would go back and get the dates on them and find out when they happened. That's what made the book so authentic and just to find out right here. That really takes care of that! [Mrs. Cole]:It's a wonderful book. His family told me that he helped Jimmie Davis campaign for Huey Long. I know that you were a child at that time, but did Jimmie Davis ever talk about that about his early campaigning days? [Mr. Franks]:I didn't know that Jimmie ever campaigned for Huey Long. I know he was on the ticket for Earl Long. Huey was in there and he got killed in the '30s. How did you get the information that Jimmie recorded for Huey? [Mrs. Cole]:The family has a picture of Johnny Roberts with his guitar in front of a sound truck and they told me that he used to campaign for Huey Long and that's how he met Jimmie. That's just what the family told us. And that he helped in pioneering the use of those sound trucks. He would get up there and sing right before the rally and it was one of the ways of drawing the crowd in the '30s. [Mr. Franks]:Jimmie couldn't play a guitar during that time Huey Long was popular. That was in '37 that he was killed? [Mrs. Cole]:In '35 that he was killed, so that would have been in the early '30's. We have two pictures of Johnny with the sound truck. [Mr. Franks]:Jimmie at that particular time, I don't think he had run for the Commissioner of Public Safety. He ran for that in '37 I think. [Mrs. Cole]:That would have been after. He might not have been involved in politics until after then. [Mr. Franks]: I started to say, he taught at the Dodd College for Women and then he got a job as Clerk of Court for Judge Samuels. He couldn't play a guitar and he was just learning, and Brother Jones and that group….and I really am not aware. I remember Huey Long because I'm a member of the American Pride and I talk about that in the book. I remember Huey. I've spent lots of time with Jimmie and he has told me lots of funny stories on Earl, but he never did say that he knew Huey. He told me some of the funniest things in the world about Earl. He said that when Earl was Governor and Huey was somewhere down there as Commissioner or something, that they had a State meeting and Earl was making his talk to the whole House you know. And they had a little roster like the preachers have, you know and he had to pee, so he zipped his britches down and eased in there (laughing). Jimmie saw this from the side and he was talking in front of all those people and… [Mrs. Cole]:(laughing) He was a mess wasn't he? [Mr. Franks]:Jimmie told me lots of funny things about Earl, but he never did talk about Huey. [Mrs. Cole]:He never did talk about…I would think if he had known Huey he definitely would have talked about him. [Mr. Franks]:He would have told me because I told him about leading the American Pride and we talked through the years. We talked so many times and I know so many personal things through the years about Jimmie, that I know that I never heard him mention Huey. He knew how I knew Huey P. Long (he knew that when I was little). But that is something that you have a pretty good bit on Johnny. I'm glad that y'all have this much. [Mrs. Cole]:You need to come by the History Center. We have four little exhibit cases, but there's not very much on his music career so that is why we are talking to you. You had mentioned another Bossier musician named Jimmy Valentine. Can you talk about him? [Mr. Franks]:Yes, he was pretty popular around here too. He knew Jimmie Davis and some of the old timers. I don't think he ever got known or ever put a record out or anything like that, but he was well known around here. He sung and played. He'd come to me lots of times and sung to me and pitched some songs to me that I never could do anything with. But I liked him very much too. There should be something wrote about Jimmy Valentine too because I think he lived in Bossier too. [Mrs. Cole]:I'm curious as to whether or not his family might still be there. Do you remember when he brought some music to you? What year that would be? [Mr. Franks]:I was on Milam Street then. It would probably be in '67 or '68 when he brought some songs to me. He was well known around here too. I think he got to be Deputy Sheriff or something, didn't he? [Mrs. Cole]:That I don't know. [Mr. Franks]:I think he was a Deputy Sheriff or he got some job. I think he did get to be a Deputy. [Mrs. Cole]:So he might still be there? [Mr. Franks]:If you can find anything on him, I think that would be good too because he was well known around here. You know when you have, like the people that lived in Bossier that you are writing on. At one time, Johnny Wright and Kitty Wells lived in a tourist court over there. A guy burned it up and got sent to the pen on it. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh yes. There was a big fire and a big scandal on that. They lived there? [Mr. Franks]:Harvey Smith lived at the other tourist place down there and Curly Williams and his…(Curly Williams sung with Hank Williams. He wasn't any kin, but he was there a long time). Lots of the people that were in Shreveport at the time, like Slim Whitman lived over in Bossier too. He never lived in Shreveport; he always lived in Bossier. Hank lived in Bossier on Modica Street. There's lots of people that lived in Bossier. (Of course David Houston's daddy ran for Mayor at one time). David Houston was from Bossier. He promoted it. Bossier has lots of…well, it has a great history itself. Johnny Roberts lived there didn't he? [Mrs. Cole]:Yes. He lived in Bossier City, out in Shady Grove, I think. [Mr. Franks]:That is really good what you're doing. I'm going to come over and look at it. [Mrs. Cole]:It's not nearly as impressive as your collection, but we have just a couple of his records. He was also an inventor, so the other half of the collection has to do with his invention. He had patented something called a roadometer. We have the patent for it, unfortunately it never got off the ground. His business partner was the Kilpatrick family; you know, the life insurance group. [Mr. Franks]:Virginia Sheehee is a good friend of mine and also her son, Andy. [Mrs. Cole]:I'm just curious. That would be my next step to see whether she had a copy of the contract he signed to give away 50% of the patent rights to Mr. Kilpatrick. [Mr. Franks]:Really. That is really something there. You really have some history. I wouldn't have all of this if my wife hadn't collected things all through the years. So many things that I don't have. I have lots of it at the house, at the den at the house. Lots of it, contracts and things that were kept through the years. I didn't realize I had all of this. See; let me show you something that I am really proud of up here. They were in a million places. Me and Johnny (Horton) wrote a song called The Shine on Rudolph's Nose. The Ballad of New Orleans was the most popular song in the world then, so we decided that we were going to make a Christmas song, The Shine on Rudolph's Nose and we put it to Jimmy Brown, the newsboy. We run an ad in the trade papers and we get this call from New York. This guy said, "Are you Tillman Franks and you manage Johnny Horton?" I said, "Yes sir." "You have a song out, I just heard and saw an ad on it, The Shine on Rudoph's Nose. And he said, "I want to tell you Mr. Franks you own no part of that, I own it all. I own every bit of it. You don't own none of it." I said, "Who am I talking to?" He said, "Johnny Marks." I said, "You're not the one that wrote Rudolph the Red Nosed Reindeer? He said, "That's me, and I own Rudolph, he's my baby." I said, "I'm sorry. I didn't know any better. Whatever you want to do is fine with me. I had no idea." He got to thinking about it and right after that he wrote me a letter giving me back the song and promoted it with his Christmas stuff. So, that's the letter he wrote me (pointing to his display of the letter). [Mrs. Cole]:Oh really. Look at that. That's something, it's written all in red. [Mr. Franks]:(Reading from the letter) "I shall be very glad to help you in any way I can to promote your song . . . " I'm really proud of that. [Mrs. Cole]:I'll bet so. [Mr. Franks]:Here is a photo of Hank Williams wearing my suit. That was the photo they used to make the U.s. postage stamp. Isn't that something? That meant as much to me as anything. You know, let's see there is a better picture, but you can have this picture right here. Take both of them so you can tell. (Giving Mrs. Cole pictures of Hank Williams). [Mrs. Cole]:Oh that is wonderful. Thank you very much. [Mr. Franks]:(looking at photo) See, you can tell right here. See how baggy the suit was. [Mrs. Cole]:Yeah. You had it all cut down. [Mr. Franks]: See this one was taken different. This one shows you how it was cut down for the photograph. [Mrs. Cole]:This is a great picture of Hank Williams. Thank you very much. [Mrs. Cole]:Before I go, tell me about Billie Jean Horton. She is my little Bossier City connection, and I know it is really tragic toward the end of his career, but since you have given me one of her pictures… [Mr. Franks]: You've got the book. (Tillman Franks, "I Was There When It Happened.") [Mrs. Cole]:Yes sir. [Mr. Franks]: Instead of talking about it, (I get pretty upset) but I want to show you something (turning to section in the book). I ain't gonna tell you what I said to Johnny right there…(pointing in the book), see that look on his face. It was something really awful that I said to him. [Mrs. Cole]:You have so many wonderful pictures in your book. [Mr. Franks]:I want to show you something else (turning pages in book). It's got to be here. There it is. You've got this book, so there wouldn't be no use me talking to you about it because I explain here my problems and my heartaches and I have it in the books. It tells about how she treated me and alsoTerry Bradshaw. So you'll understand, there is really no talking that I can do. It tells about it. See like right here, (reading from book) "J. A. Jones, a member of the Bossier City Police, everyone called him Captain Jones." He did do the captions. See, I tell about the background on this. (Pointing to picture) see that scar right there? That wasn't too long after the wreck. I tell about getting her an audition and that I got her a little record and I tell about how she took my lawyer away from me. I go into the details in really plain English. So, it wouldn't be any point in me talking about it because I cover it. [Mrs. Cole]:Yes, I understand. And it still is a sensitive subject? [Mr. Franks]: Yes, it upsets me to even talk about it. That's the letter she wrote me (pointing to the book) in her handwriting. So, you've got it already. I even tell about A. J. Modica here. You know all that land that they have out there where they have the hospital? [Mrs. Cole]:Yes. [Mr. Franks]:A. J. Modica's mom and daddy had a dairy out there, the Modica Dairy. He comes to me to take guitar lessons when I had quit booking. I started a guitar school with Dr. Knighton. He got me a start because I had taught his son, Edward. Dr. Knighton's daddy was one of the founders of Willis-Knighton Hospital). I was teaching Merle Kilgore and Edward how to play the guitar and Dr. Knighton sent me a check one time for all the times I worked with him and asked me to start a school. I started it. Right at that time I had booked Hank before then. A. J. Modica was living there on Modica Street where Hank had lived. (See that would be a good story right there). [Mrs. Cole]:Yes. [Mr. Franks]: Hank lived on Modica Street. A. J. Modica's daddy wanted him to learn how to play the guitar like Hank. So, he comes to me and I told him to get the best guitar he could get and he bought him a Martin guitar and he brought it to me. First of all, they went to Hank's house and Mr. Modica said, "Hank, I have a son that wants to learn to play the guitar and would you show him some chords?" Hank said, "Tillman Franks has got a guitar school up there. Go up there and let him teach him." He got to me and the first song I taught A. J. was A Bucket's Got a Hole In It. [Mrs. Cole]:Really (laughing)? [Mr. Franks]:He's left-handed so I had to teach him that to…and he still has the guitar. [Mrs. Cole]:He does. [Mr. Franks]: Oh we're close friends really. I tell about this in the book. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh that is a great story. [Mr. Franks]: That's a good story. A. J. can still sing A Bucket's Got a Hole In It (laughing). You ought to write something about A. J. in there because he knows everybody in town. [Mrs. Cole]:I need to call him and get an interview with him. Yes. [Mr. Franks]: Yes. That's a great story and you can get in and tell about what I said, this here (talking about the book) really covers it. This covers things pretty doggoned good. It looks like. I was hoping I would get sued. Somebody asked me the other day, said. "Aren't you afraid of Terry Bradshaw and Billie Jean Horton suing you." I said, "I certainly hope so. I would like to get on the stand and say what I said in the book and see what they had to say about it." I haven't heard from either one of them. The book is just now breaking real big. It's really hitting now. [Mrs. Cole]:It's a wonderful book. I'm so glad that you wrote it and that we have this record. [Mr. Franks]: Isn't that something? I just got a call from Richard Reiser, he owns German Bear Family Record Company that brings all these albums out, really worldwide, they are really big. He had just talked to Glen Sutton, who wrote, Almost Persuaded. Glen comes to the Tillman Franks Day down here, you know. I really got him in the business and all that. He saw Glen and Glen told him that he needed to get that book worldwide and handle it like he is doing his records. He called me. Richard called me and said, "Let's go international" and said that he wanted to handle the book for me worldwide. I told him to talk to Robert Gentry and I'm going to talk to Robert later on today. [Mrs. Cole]:That's great. [Mr. Franks]:That story…us just talking here…that A. J. Modica. He's still got the guitar and he still sings A Buckets Got a Hole In It. [Mrs. Cole]:Great. [Mr. Franks]:We're dear friends really. Hank Williams sent him to me. I tell it, but you can get it out of the book. Get A. J. to sign the book. If you will bring it over here sometime I will sign the book for you. If you had brought it today, I would have signed it for you. [Mrs. Cole]:I do have a signed copy that I got at Barnes and Nobles, so it is signed but it is not personalized. Well, if you come to the History Center I will have you sign it then. [Mr. Franks]:I'll write something nice to thank you for what you are doing over there. [Mrs. Cole]:Thank you. [Mr. Franks]:Us just talking, I talked to Jimmie right before he died. That was the last time I talked to him. He wouldn't talk to nobody. He could hardly talk. Jimmie would fix breakfast for me when I played with him I stayed at his house. Through the years we really got closer than…I got upset with him about a couple of things. I signed some songs to him and he had it tagged on that he had Power of Attorney and he got the renewal rights on it I was supposed to get, and he had me sign over the Power of Attorney and I didn't know it. I really got upset for about a year or two over it. Anyhow, we had many business dealings together and I've got a good bit about Jimmie in there (the book). About the last time I talked to Jimmie, I called Anna to see how he was doing and she said "well, they're shaving him now, the nurse is in there now shaving him". She said, "He's hollering asking who was she talking to". She said, "Jimmie, I'm talking to Tillman Franks," and he said, "Well, don't he want to talk to me?" (laughing). He got on the phone and that was the only time in his entire life that he told me. He said, "Tillman, I'll tell you, you have inspired lots of people." Jimmie didn't brag on nobody. He didn't even introduce people on stage a lot of times, like his wife or me. He just didn't do it. He couldn't do it. When I was talking to him, I said, "Well, it was good talking to you Jimmie" and then I said, "the book I'm writing I'm going to tell about the time that I gave you an enema." He started laughing and I said, "I'm not going into the gory details." It's a crazy thing but I did. I dropped a little in the book about it. [Mrs. Cole]:(Laughing) Really? [Mr. Franks]:It was really awful because he was so sick. I describe it and everything. I went into details with him and he got so tickled. He was sure I would put it all in, but I didn't. I put enough in it though. I did say I gave him an enema. I got that in there. [Mrs. Cole]:Laughing. [Mr. Franks]:You know that chair you are sitting in. You know what that is? [Mrs. Cole]:No. [Mr. Franks]:That's the Carolina chair from President Kennedy. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh my goodness. [Mr. Franks]:Look at that picture right there. You know how I got it? [Mrs. Cole]:No. [Mr. Franks]:Jimmie Davis was going up to talk to him about that time about the Tideland Oil, when he was governor. Claude King had Woverton Mountain out then, and he called me up and he said "Brother Franks I want you take a little trip with me." He called me "Brother" Franks. I said, "Where are you going?" He said, "Up the road." I said, "Up the road, where?" He said, "We're just going up the road here. We'll come by and get you. We're going in the plane and we'll pick you up." I said, "Well, I can't go." The next week, he called me. He said, "You should have gone with me last week." I said, "Who'd you go see?" He said, "President Kennedy. All the time I was talking to him he was in this rocking chair and he wanted to talk about his back, instead of about Tideland Oil. He wanted to talk about his back and I told him that I was having a little back trouble and he told me how this chair helped him. I asked him to send me one and told him to send you one too." [Mrs. Cole]:Oh my goodness. [Mr. Franks]:Jimmie's got burned up. That's the Carolina chair. The President Kennedy Carolina chair that's your sitting on. If you knew, you wouldn't dream of using it. [Mrs. Cole]:No that is so exciting! [Mr. Franks]:I had to tell that story there, you wouldn't dream of sitting…talking about the museum there. [Mrs. Cole]:No. Now you are going to have a hard time getting rid of me, I'm going to want to sit in this chair all day (laughing). [Mr. Franks]:Just talking here about Johnny Roberts and A. J. Modica, and Hank. I think I've got a program here of Hank. One of the ads in the program, if I've got it here, I'll give it to you….(searching for program). I had a program that had Hank, Jr. ran an ad in if when I had my book signing. I thought I had a copy of it. He wrote something in the ad. But Merle is still his manager and it tells in the book how I taught Merle to play a guitar like Dr. Knighton's son. I got him started. I talk to Merle regularly. I'm going to be at the Hank Williams International Fan Club. They have it every year where he was born in Gardena, Alabama. I will be the special guest there with my book with Merle Haggard, Marty Stewart, and Connie Stamps and a bunch of them. They are giving me a booth there where I can sell. I've got some posters of Hank Williams that we sent out with my book with the dates. We're going to sell the posters and this book. You think if you sell 500 to 1,000 of them at $30.00 a piece. I make about $18.00 a piece on them. We've about got our money, so that it's all profit now. [Mrs. Cole]:So you are going to have a poster that will have these letters from Powhattan on it. (Powhattan School wrote to Tillman Franks and asked him to book Hank Williams as a singer for their program. A copy of the letter is reproduced on the poster.) [Mr. Franks]:That's right. I'll give you a poster and then right to it I have the letters. I'll bring you one. [Mrs. Cole]:We would love to have one. [Mr. Franks]:We got them ready now. I've just seen the proof on it. It's the regular Louisiana Hayride poster. The admission is 25 and 50 cents in this Powhattan is where it is. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh yeah. Yeah. That's great. [Mr. Franks]:That would be a good thing. He lived on Modica Street and get A. J. Modica to give you the house numbers. (A. J.'s house number.) His mom and daddy had that dairy over there. That's a really good Bossier story there. [Mrs. Cole]:Yes that would be. [Mr. Franks]:A. J. tells everybody all through the years. He gets excited about it when he talks about it. He loves David Houston. One time we was playing a big thing in Mobile for a guy that had a subdivision down there. He had lots of money and he had Dottie West. Let's see, Dottie's guitar player…what's his name? He's real famous now, but he had just started playing the guitar. He's number one in the nation now and he was playing the guitar. A.J. went down there with me and David and he had a ball. And he still remembers things like that. A. J. through the years, if I have anything at all around, he'll show up for it. Like the book signing. It would tickle him to talk to you. But, you know that would be real good. You might even take a picture of the house that he lived in and have A. J. Modica tell you about it. I tell you, there is something there because A. J. knows more about it than anybody. I think that it was the second house. Modica Street was named after A. J.'s granddaddy. That was the street that Hank lived on. He lived there a pretty good while. I think he lived there when Hank, Jr. was born. I think he was still living there then. That's something. You know, when I think, (I'm not living in the past, I'm having fun now), but I am the Grand Marshal of the Rose Bowl Festival in Vivian this year. That's the 17th of March. I believe it is the 17th of March that they are going to have it. I have a booth at the Chamber of Commerce where I can sell my books and other things there. They are going to interview me on the radio station next Wednesday and then they had a SB that had a picture on the front of it with me and David and they had a big story on it. You've got my book, it tells all of it in there. I'm looking forward to going to that. [Mrs. Cole]:Yes. That should be a really nice festival up there too. It's so pretty up there. [Mr. Franks]:Claude King is having a big date in Houston and I get to go with him. He's going to have a big deal in Conroe at the country station there promoting Claude. He'll be there to appear. He's getting $2,000. They thought he was dead, and when they found out he wasn't, they had in one of the books the history and somebody said "You can't get Claude King there, I know he's dead." I said, " No, we can get him." (laughing) So, he charged $2,000 for two of the musicians at $500.00 a piece and Claude said he wanted me to come and sell the books too. [Mrs. Cole]That's great. [Mr. Franks]:In Jasper around noon, that's Jasper, Texas. Max Altus played second base (shortstop I think) for the Cleveland Indians. He was a big ball player. He was a big player for the University of Texas and he was big league for a long time. I got to know him real well. I have a picture of him when he come to see me when David was playing at Boston one time in Cleveland. I called him up and told him which club David was going to be at. He came out and got a picture of he and David and Max. Max is down in Jasper now and he is having a book signing. I got a big kick out of him going to town. He had a baseball school and I used to take my two sons there. Actually I talked to him last week and I said, "One of your sons I knew was playing in the smaller leagues, did he make it big?" Max said, "No, he didn't make it to the big league but, I've got two grandsons that are going to be." [Mrs. Cole]:You had mentioned earlier that Shreveport really was the center of the Country and Western Music movement. [Mr. Franks]:We call that the Magic Circle. [Mrs. Cole]:Tell me about the Magic Circle. [Mr. Franks]:The Magic Circle is the radius of Shreveport, say about sixty mile radius of Shreveport. You could cover one hundred miles and you would cover more. Still a forty or fifty mile radius covered the first three who started the music on record for the whole world. The first million seller of any kind of records was Vernon Dalhart with something called The Prisoner's Song and on the other side was The Wreck of the Ole 97. His name was Larry Slaughter and he was born in Texas. He went to New York when he was about fourteen years old and he studied opera singing. He learned to sing the high opera. He did some for Edison when Edison started and then they decided this company was going to put out this record that appealed to farmers --down to earth people. They told him to sing like that so when he sung he put on a little like real corny and country. He was really like that. He did this The Prisoner's Song. It was a record overnight seller. It sold a million. It was the first million seller for the whole world! [Mrs. Cole]:Oh my goodness. [Mr. Franks]:Like I say they changed his name. He picked out two towns, the town of Vernon and the town of Dalhart. He thought that would make a good name, so he called his name that. He hit so big. I tell about it. He hit so big that Bluebird (I think it was Bluebird then, that was RCA Victor, one of their first labels) they wanted to put out a record then of the higher class music then. Gene Austin was a blues singer and they got Gene Austin and put him on a record. His name was Gene Lucas. He said if Vernon Dalhart can change his name, he could change his too. So, he picked out the town of Austin and called himself Gene Austin. He lived in Minden. Vernon Dalhart lived in Jefferson. Leadbelly, Huddie Ledbetter, was in Mooringsport. See, right here, that's the three. That's the first three that started the music. Then on top of that, W. K. Henderson built the most powerful radio station right here in Shreveport and they put Jimmie Davis on the radio and that reached the whole world. That was the first! So, I call that the Magic Circle. Later on Jimmie Davis got popular and Jim Reeves was in the Magic Circle from DeBerry. Also in it were Tex Ridder at Lake Murvall, and then Webb Pierce from here and Faron Young from here and all that. Johnny Cash was up the road… End of Side 1 -767 Tape 1, Side B [768-1006] [Mrs. Cole]:Johnny Cash was up the road. A sixty mile radius was really the birth of country music. [Mr. Franks]:If you want to go just a little further, you could take in Elvis in Tupelo. I'm not going to put Bill Clinton in it. He's from Hope. I was born in Stamps (Arkansas). [Mrs. Cole]:Oh you were? [Mr. Franks]:Yeah, I was. Bill Clinton was from Hope, which is about twenty miles from there. He's not going in it. Huey P. Long is from Ruston. The Circle goes wider and circle a little more and you will cover all of it. What started the music business is the Magic Circle. You see, in the Magic Circle, the Hayride started, Elvis Presley hit in the Magic Circle too (even though he is from Tupelo). He hit in the Magic Circle. Johnny Cash hit in the Magic Circle. Hank Williams hit in the Magic Circle. That's where they hit in the Magic Circle. [Mrs. Cole]:So it was all going on here in Shreveport-Bossier? [Mr. Franks]:Yes, in the Magic Circle. Shreveport-Bossier is the Magic Circle. My next book is going to be the Magic Circle. Here, you can read it right here (referring to the book). Here it is, page thirteen. Now that would be a good thing for you to do, how Bossier is in the Magic Circle. [Mrs. Cole]:Right. [Mr. Franks]:What you do (referring to book) what I told you on the dates and these will help you with the other dates. It's got all about the Magic Circle and that would be a good thing to tie in and get things on it and it sure is a part of the Magic Circle. Bossier is a part of the Magic Circle. Hank lived in Bossier. Slim Whitman lived in Bossier. John & Jack and Kitty Wells, the Bailes Brothers all lived there too. It was a big part of the Magic Circle….well, it is the Magic Circle. [Mrs. Cole]: Can you tell me about when the Hayride moved over to Bossier? Later? Were you involved in that? [Mr. Franks]:That's not the Hayride, I do not count that as the Hayride. They operated about ten years there, as long as we did the first time. They didn't have one star. Mickey Furman I think is the only one that played out there. They didn't have one single star. They never invited me to come. I went to it one time and they charged me to come in and they didn't introduce me. [Mrs. Cole]:Oh my goodness. [Mr. Franks]:The only reason I went Buck Owens's son was there that day (Buddy Allen) and Buck had asked me to go see him. I went there (me and my wife) and it was the only time I went. They charged me to go. Of all the stories they have had about the Hayride, my name was never mentioned and I was the only one that knew about it. David Kent didn't do it. He didn't create one star, so that ain't the Hayride. The Hayride folded when I resigned on that Wednesday and they didn't have it that Saturday. I gave it my money to get Johnny's contract and I go into it in the book. I go into it in the gory details about some of this stuff. [Mrs. Cole]:Yes, you do. (laughing) I just want to get some comments on tape. [Mr. Franks]:I really got something there (laughing). I'm really proud of what is happening now. We're going to appear at the Earnest Tubb Record Shop in Nashville. Oh yeah, last week, every other month they have the National Musicians Union Magazine put out with all the members. There are over two or three thousand members. It's one of the biggest locals in the world, you know. They are featuring me and my book in the National, two pages. Harold Bradley is the President of it and he played on The Battle of New Orleans. He played the banjo. He's Omar Bradley's brother. He played on Springtime In Alaska and played on all our sessions. He's a dear friend. He's the President of the Union up there. So, I'm going to have lots of people when we go to the Earnest Tubb Record Shop at the Opry. I used to manage Billie Walker, and Jimmy Ewing and Billy Carlisle and all three of them are still at the Opry, so I'm going to have them come down to the Earnest Tubb Record Shop. David Mc Cormick bought that Earnest Tubb Record Shop from Earnest Tubb's son. He has three in Nashville, one in Branson, one in Fort Worth at the Stockyards there. He owns five of them. I just talked to him yesterday and he said that he was going to promote and have me come up there. [Mrs. Cole]:Well that is wonderful. I'm so glad that you are going to get some recognition and that you are going to get some recognition for Shreveport and the Hayride. [Mr. Franks]:Yes it will be great. I really hit the Opry hard. They are pretty upset with me. They really are upset and don't appreciate what I said. It's true what they did to Country Music. We formed CMA. I'm a charter member. We formed it to keep the country sound to keep the country from the soul. Now they put so much music on it and drums and drown it out and they cut sex videos with the girls with the diamond in their navel or something. Out of the top ten, six of them are like that. They run a $200,000 video and they put it in the top ten and keep it in there for twenty-something weeks. They have to run ads in Billboard like we used to. It's really, well that's how it changed. It's a money thing now. There's some good records out now, like Alan Jackson and George Straight, I really like them. There are really some good records out, but they have gone too far. Like on the Grand Old Opry, they have the drum and the music talent turned up so loud you can't hear the voice. It kills our country. It's not what's modern, it's something that you hear the words and the soul of it. If you can't hear that you've lost that. [Mrs. Cole]: Right. [Mr. Franks]:It don't have nothing to do with what's modern. I want to record Claude King again. I'm going to do Lonely Street. Wayne Walker wrote Lonely Street. He's the one that I got in business with, brought Faron to me, and he's the one that I've got business with. Wayne Walker is really one of the greatest song writers of all time. He lived here. He married Mr. Stagg's daughter, the Staggs had the poster company. Later on she married Lester Blew, Kathy did, she married Lester Brew. But that was Wayne Walker. Wayne Walker was from here. He didn't live in Bossier. Actually Kathy lived in Bossier. She was married to Wayne Walker. He was her first husband. She had a couple of boys, I think, by Wayne. He's the one that brought Faron Young to me. He's another one that lost it. When I get talking on this thing, I still have so much on my mind between writing on this book and getting this kind of action on this book. It's almost unreal. [Mrs. Cole]:It's a lot to do, isn't it? You're going to have to start traveling all over the place. [Mr. Franks]:It's something that I could even do it. That I could hear from people like this guy from Germany that called me this morning and he wanted to have a deal where he could distribute it worldwide. So I told him that he could talk to Robert Gentry. [Mrs. Cole]:Your web site helps, that's where I found your E Mail. I just got on the web and found your EMail. [Mr. Franks]:That's right. Robert told me we were beginning to get lots of action out of it because of the promotion that he is doing. On YaHoo or something. The web site is really picking up now. I have Johnny singing The Battle on it. Then later one they are going to put Tillman Franks singers on it, where you can hear the Tillman Franks signers too. [Mrs. Cole]: I look forward to hearing that. Thank you so much for your time Mr. Tillman. This was a very interesting and informative interview. [Mr. Franks]: I've really enjoyed this. [979 - 1006] End of Interview |
People |
Franks, Tillman Ben, Sr. |
Search Terms |
Oral History Country Music Louisiana Hayride |
Lexicon category |
6: T&E For Communication |
Interview date |
2001-02-14 |
Interviewer |
Nita Cole |
Medium |
Plastic |
Recording media |
Cassette Tape |
Lexicon sub-category |
Sound Communication T&E |
Inventoried date |
2025-06-12 |