Archive Record

Metadata

Accession number

1998.078

Catalog Number

1998.078.006

Object Name

Audiocassette

Date

21 Feb 2001

Title

Leon Sanders Oral History Interview

Scope & Content

Original tape. Oral History Interview with Leon Sanders conducted by Kitty Coyle and Nita Cole on February 21, 2001. Leon Sanders is a life-long resident of Plain Dealing, Louisiana. He was Mayor for 40 years until his retirement in 1998. Mr. Sanders talks about his grandparent's home, school, and the Depression and his experiences in World War II. He also was instrumental in the development of the Dogwood Festival Committee.

Interview with Mayor Leon Sanders
Interview Conducted by Kitty Coyle and Nita Cole
February 21, 2001

Leon Sanders is a life-long resident of Plain Dealing. He was Mayor for 40 years until his retirement in 1998. He remembers his grandparents' home, talks about school, the Depression and his experiences in World War II. He was instrumental in the development of the Dogwood Committee and as Mayor, crowned several Queens.

Tape 1, Side A [1- 625]

[Mayor Sanders]:You know what, since you…I didn't intend to do this to you, but, would you like to know what happened in 1883 and 1885?

[Ms. Coyle]:We would love to!

[Mayor Sanders]:This is my grandfather's diary. I started digging stuff out and it was fascinating to dig in there and to see what…most of it was personal stuff, but I'll just give it …start off right there…

[Ms. Coyle]:You know, we all ought to keep diaries like that, shouldn't we? (looking at Mr. Sander's grandfather's diary). Look at that ….beautiful..

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, I'll tell you we ought to because especially for the family as you move on down the line.

[Ms. Coyle]:It's priceless.

[Mrs. Cole]:And you weren't inspired to keep a diary yourself, Mayor Sanders?

[Mayor Sanders]:I started out, I was going to do it. My goodness, this stupid little thing, nobody would care (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:Oh, but they would. Look at his beautiful writing. Look there now, this is February (looking at the diary pages and reading) "Everything is covered in ice." See it was so much colder then.

[Mrs. Cole]:Yeah, it was covered in ice back in 1883 and what is it now, 70 degrees in 2001?

[Mayor Sanders]:(laughing) I knew y'all were coming so I was looking to see what can I put my hands for what y'all are trying to build up, you know.

[Mrs. Cole]:We want to hear about your life too.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, my life is worthless (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle and Mrs. Cole]:Oh, not at all. You have had a very interesting career.

[Ms. Coyle]:Well, I'll tell you, mother and I have always said that we are so proud that Leon was our Mayor, because any time that he spoke at any function or he was interviewed on television, he was always so dignified and so articulate.

[Mayor Sanders]:(laughing) I appreciate those kind words.

[Ms. Coyle]:We always did. We were always so proud of him.

[Mrs. Cole]:Can you tell us anything about your family's house? We are interested in the house since we have model of it at the History Center and have they quite working on it next door or are they still?

[Mayor Sanders]:They have quit. I don't know. It wound up in the hands of the kids and Paula, this fellow came to me and wanted to buy that house and I said to him "Well, I have nothing to do with it any more. It belongs to the kids." So, he and Paula made some kind of deal and he was going to renovate, to put it back in shape. He even talked about moving back into the house, because none of my kids are going to be back here. When I'm gone, well, that 's why I just plain gave it to them you see. He didn't proceed with it.

[Ms. Coyle]:Do you know what happened? Did he run out of money?

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't know what. I just don't know.

[Ms. Coyle]:Because he has it looking so good.

[Mayor Sanders]:He had started off and it was looking good.

[Mrs. Cole]:He did all the expensive work on it, so now all that structural work.

[Mayor Sanders]:I haven't seen him or talked with him lately. I don't know whether his health has gone down or what it is.

[Ms. Coyle]:What's his name, Leon?

[Mayor Sanders]:Let's see, Allen, I believe.

[Ms. Coyle]:Allen. I wish there was some way to get a grant or something to do that house. That is the most gorgeous place.

[Mayor Sanders]:There's something you know in that diary in there somewhere, "Well, we worked on the house today." And I assume that it was that house over there. It was somewhere in 1898 or something is what I was reading, I think.

[Ms. Coyle]:Do you think that's when it was built in 1898?

[Mayor Sanders]:Around the turn of the century. They were building on it.

[Ms. Coyle]:So, around the turn of the century. Did your grandfather build it himself?

[Mayor Sanders]:They worked on it themselves. Yeah, they had help, but they built it.

[Ms. Coyle]:They didn't have like an architect or a builder, like a building contractor?

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't know exactly, but he had a good idea of what he wanted. But, of course, as a kid I grew up in it. I've driven a tricycle all the way around that house...down one side and up another. Why I didn't go up through those front windows there, in what we called at that time the parlor. That wasn't a living room that was the parlor.

I remember whenever she had company she would put them in the parlor while she finished the lunch. Then she would say, "Ya'll come out to eat now, come out to lunch now, come out to dinner now, come out!" (laughing). Oh, gee.

[Ms. Coyle]:Did your sister, Hazel, live in that house?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yeah, she did.

[Ms. Coyle]:She had lived in it until the last few years, right?

[Mayor Sanders]:Right.

[Ms. Coyle]:Big old house for just one person, isn't it?

[Mayor Sanders]:Big old house, yes.

[Mrs. Cole]:Now, when you lived there, did you live there with your grandparents? Was that an extended family all living together?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, no. They had gone on before. It was all a part of their plan and my Dad's plan, he knew the house. In that diary, I know, it's personal stuff, like "I went here today and I did this today". I just happened to dig that thing out. What's the date of that thing there?

[Ms. Coyle]:1883.

[Mayor Sanders]:It's kind of fascinating to see how people lived back then. Yes, and first hand.

[Mrs. Cole]:And how is it different than when you a child? Wasn't your childhood pretty much the same?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, it was pretty much the same.

[Mrs. Cole]:But, compared to your grandchildren now, that's completely different, right?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, altogether different. They think you are nuts when you start talking about it.

[Ms. Coyle]:(laughing). Yes. You grew up in that house, Leon? That big house over there?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, I did.

[Ms. Coyle]:I envy you. That was a gorgeous place to grow up.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, my goodness, it was.

[Mrs. Cole]:Can you tell us about what you remember about going to school? When you first went to school?

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, we walked to school there was no school bus. They later started to send a hack out Collinsburg way. They had mules, a team of mules and put them to a wagon. The school was up on the hill and we would walk across a trail to get to school. Those riding would get there the best way they could, you know and all that kind of stuff. The school was always up on the hill there.

[Mrs. Cole]:Do you remember any of your teachers?

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, yes, Ms. Bessie Caldwell.

[Ms. Coyle]:I remember her.

[Mayor Sanders]:She was Ms. Bessie Scarborough and she was my teacher in the second grade. Ms. Smith, I believe it was, in the third grade and let's see, somewhere I had one of my report cards. In fact, I don't know what I did with it.

[Ms. Coyle]:I would love to see it. Were you a good student?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, I wasn't the best, but I didn't make failing grades (laughing).

[Mrs. Cole]:Do you remember who was the principal when you were there?

[Mayor Sanders]:Mr. Phillips one time (F. G. Phillips) was there.

[Ms. Coyle]:He was the principal when I started.

[Mayor Sanders]:He was the name that stood out, you know.

[Mrs. Cole]:He was there quite a while then?

[Mayor Sanders]:He was "god" on that hill (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:Were you as scared of him as I was?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, I think so. His word was law. It wasn't like it is today.

[Ms. Coyle]:(Laughing) That's right.

[Mayor Sanders]:He ran that school. He ran that hilltop up there when school was in session. You know there's the funniest thing, and I was there at the time it took place, but on April Fool's Day some girls played hookey. So, have you heard this too?

[Ms. Coyle]:No, I don't think so.

[Mayor Sanders]:So, he called them in on April's Fool Day and he left them in the room right next to the office. He had somebody in there and they called the girls in one at a time into his office and they went on down the hall into the next room where the girls waiting couldn't see them. There was a Miss Adah B. Aaron who was a teacher up there.

[Ms. Coyle]:And she taught me too.

[Mayor Sanders]: And she had a shrill voice (sounding like her) and she had a coat and a belt. They would beat that coat and she would let out a scream.

(All laughing)

[Mayor Sanders]:And the other girls of course, they thought he was going to do it to them you see. Like to have scared those girls to death!

(All laughing)

[Mayor Sanders]:Beth Sentell is one of them and she said, "My daddy doesn't let a teacher whip me." And he told her, "This is one time he's going to let a teacher whip you" and he whammed on the coat and the other girl screamed out! (laughing) So, they thought Beth got a beating (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:Who were the other girls, do you remember?

[Mayor Sanders]:No I do not.

[Ms. Coyle]:Beth was one of them.

[Mayor Sanders]:That was the way…but, those girls never played hookey again.

[Ms. Coyle]:(laughing) I'll bet they didn't!

[Mrs. Cole]:I'll bet none of the other ones played hookey either when they heard about that.

[Mayor Sanders]:No, they didn't because it scared them to death and what was going with those screams. No, it's kind of funny, but back in those days though the principal was "god" when he was on the hilltop. You had somebody come running in the class or something you got a switching (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:And you had to stand under the clock if you were bad!

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right. You had to stand under the clock and wait for them to walk by….get caught.

[Ms. Coyle]:And it was like going to the electric chair to stand under that clock!

[Mayor Sanders]:(Laughing) Everybody says that. It was the most pitiful thing in the world!

[Ms. Coyle]:(Laughing) Yes it was.

[Mrs. Cole]:So, that wasn't necessarily a bad thing, do you think? His method and his way?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, it wasn't a bad thing. He had to control a bunch of kids and you know as well as I, that's a problem. He wasn't mean and he wasn't vicious. He just tried to devise systems that would work.

[Mrs. Cole]:And he must have been quite successful if he was principal for so long?

[Mayor Sanders]:I think he did a good job.

[Ms. Coyle]:Was he the principal the whole time that you were in school?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, not the whole time. I believe he came here from __________.

[Ms. Coyle]:Or did he come from Mississippi?

[Mayor Sanders]:He might have come here from Mississippi.

[Ms. Coyle]:I know Matt, his nephew, I guess, came from Mississippi.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was quite a time.

[Mrs. Cole]:When you graduated from high school did you go off to college?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, I didn't. I had a sister in college and one that had just gotten through; we didn't have enough money for me to go to college. Eloise went on and she became a teacher. She taught Home EC at Tech awhile and then down at Northwestern. She was a fill in and they would get in a bind and call her out of Minden to fill in for those spots. I guess she did a pretty good job.

[Ms. Coyle]:She must've been. Was she the oldest, Leon? Eloise?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, she was the youngest.

[Ms. Coyle]:She was the youngest?

[Mayor Sanders]:Rita was the oldest. Rita was the oldest and she was at the library down there. She worked in the library.

[Ms. Coyle]:She was my second grade teacher.

[Mayor Sanders]:She started off teaching Home EC. That's what she went. She taught Home Economics over in Hosston and then second grade teaching spot became available and somebody contacted her and she began teaching second grade.

[Ms. Coyle]:I think she taught my mother also and me.

[Mayor Sanders]:She probably did.

[Mrs. Cole]:Do you remember what year you graduated from high school?

[Mayor Sanders]:1930. That's about one hundred and fifty years ago (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:(laughing) Not quite.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's possible, isn't it …1930.

[Ms. Coyle]:Did they have eleven grades then?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes.

[Mrs. Cole]:What was it like in Plain Dealing during the Depression? Did you feel the Depression? Were you aware of it?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, I was a "poor boy." Yes, I felt it because it was difficult, hard times, work. I didn't know wonder what I was gong to do in the afternoons when I got out of school. I would come back with Daddy and hoe some cotton, chop some cotton, hoe some corn. He didn't torture us. We all pitched in and did things. We had too in those days. Those were hard days.

[Mrs. Cole]:Did you do that during the Depression after you got out of high school?

[Mayor Sanders]:For a while I didn't have a job for a few years, so I did that. I worked on Saturdays at the stores in town. One time I worked all day long for seventy-five cents. Big pay!

[Ms. Coyle]:And you thought that was a lot.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was a lot - three quarters (laughing).

[Mrs. Cole]:What did you do with your money? Did you go to the movies or the picture show?

[Mayor Sanders]:We would go to the picture show. Then I, let's see, I raised and sold watermelons. Right where this house is there was a strawberry patch and I raised and…I say I, we raised, and we'd sell the strawberries. But whatever I got out of the watermelons would be mine except I had to divide with my sister (laughing). That was understood.

[Mrs. Cole]:Was she a big help?

[Mayor Sanders]:She didn't do much out there in that watermelon patch.

[Ms. Coyle]:(laughing) Which sister is that?

[Mayor Sanders]:Eloise. You see, there was not much, there was not really much work to a watermelon patch. You go out there and plow and have a certain plow to get it in shape. Then after a certain period of time you can't plow it anymore because those vines are all running out. You have to pull up the weeds around it. Then when the watermelons come in, you…well the watermelons now you get $4.00 and $5.00 for, I guess. I would get 35 and 40 cents for them, you see.

[Ms. Coyle]:And I'll bet they were better!

[Mayor Sanders]:They were a lot better. They were called Albert's Honey. They had a tender rind and they were just delicious!

[Ms. Coyle]:Wish I had one!

[Mayor Sanders]:So many watermelons today don't have a good taste. They look pretty good, but they don't taste like anything.

[Ms. Coyle]:The tomatoes either.

[Mrs. Cole]:They are not ripe. I guess they just don't leave them until they ripen.

[Mrs. Cole]:So, what was your first full time job then?

[Mayor Sanders]:Of course, I worked on Saturday. I go down and work in the store down there. Then I did store work and of course, a full time job was when "Uncle Sam" said it was time to come visit with him (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:Yes. "Uncle Sam" provided lots of employment for people, didn't he?

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right. You know what, that was a lucky break when I think about those days. It's just like everybody because I was in the service right now it keeps us out of the "poor house." With the military retirement, I draw $930.18 a month. Imagine that!

[Mrs. Cole]:That is very good.

[Mayor Sanders]:Imagine that. I'm not entitled to that.

[Mrs. Cole]:How long were you in the service?

[Mayor Sanders]:Four years. It wasn't a career for me. I was drafted and it scared me to death when they drafted me.

[Ms. Coyle]:Was it during World War II?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:Well, you do deserve it then.

[Mrs. Cole]:What branch of the service were you in?

[Mayor Sanders]:The Air Force. It was the Army Air Corps is what it was called to start with, then the Air Corps and that is what they drafted me into. So, you know, one day they called me to go around the base and some lady was with him, to sell war bonds. So we went all around to Battalion Headquarters. Ms. Lindsey was her name. Ms. Lindsey, she took Dottie's place for a little while (laughing), but during the process she said, "Why don't you go up to Headquarters and ask for a job up there? There are some men that are transferring and I believe they want you up there and it might work into something." So she said, "Will you do that?" So I went up and ___________ I was scared. You couldn't go busting up to Headquarters as a Private without an appointment. So I went up and said, "I want to see Captain So-n-So." They asked, "What's your name?" and I said, 'I'm Private Sanders, Sir." He asked, "Does Captain So-n-So know you are up here?" I answered, "No sir, he doesn't know I'm here." He said, "I'm going to call him and if he'll agree, I want you up here."

That's the best break I ever had. I made contacts and moved on up and I finally got in the department that handled applications for Officer Candidate School. I handled all of it and got fast promotions. So, one day I told my Captain in Charge of the department that I was handling the applications, "Sir, I've decided that I'm going to go to OCS. They're taking these other guys and they make it and they aren't any better than I am, and they made it I guess. What do you think?" He said, "I'll tell you what, if you wait until the first of the month I'll give you, I'll promote you to Tech Sergeant and you'll have that ready to go now down there and you'll draw more money down there, and I'll back you."

[Mrs. Cole]:That was a good deal.

[Mayor Sanders]:So, I got to go to OCS and got to be a Lieutenant.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's great!

[Mayor Sanders]:When you talk about being mistreated, the guys at OCS treated us like dogs.

[Ms. Coyle]:Did you ever think about making the military a career?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, I didn't really because I don't know why. Of course at that time I didn't think I would ever need…well, you could get killed.

I know one night while I was in OCS on the coast of Florida and there was another guy doing guard duty and he challenged me to "Halt, who's there?" Well, I could hear him and I answered, "Guard Post Number Five". He called again, "Halt, who's there?" and I said, "Guard Post Number Five," but the wind was blowing from him to me and he couldn't hear me. So, finally I got down on the ground and I said, "Guard Post Number Five and don't you shoot me…don't you shoot me, don't you shoot me." (laughing)

We'd been told out there, see, that the Germans were coming in on the Florida coast and don't wait too long and shoot. I said, "He's going to kill me right here," but he didn't shoot me. But that was all the danger that I was in the four years that I was in the service.

[Mrs. Cole]:So you didn't go over seas? You didn't have to go over seas?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, I didn't. I spent all my time in America.

[Ms. Coyle]:Were you married then, Leon?

[Mayor Sanders]:No.

[Mrs. Cole]:So when the War was over, you came back to Plain Dealing?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes.

[Mrs. Cole]:Did you start working back here again or farming?

[Mayor Sanders]:I worked over in the ________ City, Alabama some. Then a soap plant, I operated a soap plant down here and we shipped soap all over the United States.
Went over there and operated soap plant. Then the War pressure was getting out and the big soap manufacturers were coming back in, so more manufacturers….at Phoenix (?), not a lovely town. I don't know if you have ever been there or not?

[Mrs. Cole]:No.

[Mayor Sanders]:Right across the River from Columbus, Georgia. Columbus had a good name you know but Phoenix was a really little place.

[Mrs. Cole]:When did you come back to Plain Dealing?

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, I was trying to think, Nashville, Tennessee then I forget what year it was when I came back down here….I was trying to think. I guess running the soap factory was one of the first things I did when I got back here.

[Ms. Coyle]:Did Doyle already have the store during that time?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. He had the store.

[Ms. Coyle to Mrs. Cole]:That's his brother.

[Mayor Sanders]:We had produce. I ran the dry goods and he ran the groceries.

[Ms. Coyle]:I wish it was still there.

[Mayor Sanders]:(Laughing) Oh, yeah.

[Mrs. Cole]:Were you here in 1951 when Dogwood was first formed? When the Dogwood Association was first formed?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, I was trying to think of the first afternoon on Dogwood Drive, I believe that was it. I know they advertised it, and on that Sunday afternoon you looked up in the Northwest and there was a red cloud. I thought, what in the world could that be? We were seriously wondering what in the world that red cloud was. That was people and they had come up to make the Dogwood Drive. You see it was not paved but red dirt. Man alive! Hundreds of cars came through and kicked up that red dirt up in the air and you talk about a picture that red dirt floating up in the Northwest!

(Ms. Coyle]:You know we have heard several different tales about whose idea the Dogwood Drive was. I always heard growing up that it was Mr. Phillips.

[Mayor Sanders]:I think it actually was Mr. Phillips.

[Ms. Coyle]:But, my cousin, Thelma, has told me that Aunt Marie had the first idea and then Mr. Crawford, Mr. Glenn Crawford has written up a little thing that his wife, and Maureen Acton and Ms. Rita were having a coke at the drug store and them coming up with the idea and telling the Lyons Club about it. Then Mamry's interview credits your sister, Eloise with the idea. So, it is a lot of different stories about it.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was a lot of involvement before it got going. If you name one person and you say they were responsible that they started then there will be a thousand that say, no. It was several people really. Then we determined the route and so forth.

[Ms. Coyle]:It must have been something that people talked about for a few years before it actually…

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes. It didn't happen in a year's time because you see the woods were full of elderberry and the leaves were dry and then down through the bushes and there were the white blossoms right there.

[Mrs. Cole]:Who owned the property in 1950?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, golly. I don't know. There was a public road you see, a little dirt road, but a public road that came…well it was already there. You would follow that road up and follow that to the left and go out there a little while and there would be little things like cotton bales and my gosh, it was where the farming took place, I mean the big farming and all the times it changes and they sure have…. As they say they SURE have!

(All laughing)

[Ms. Coyle]:They really have. As far as your knew, or did you think that Mr. Phillips was the main one then? He kind of got behind it.

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. He was behind it.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's what I had always heard. I was surprised to read these other stories, you know, that I hadn't heard before.

[Mayor Sanders]:Everybody was involved. It's not fair to give him full credit, but he was the one. He had a local paper and let's see, maybe I don't but I thought I did, I guess I don't have.

[Mrs. Cole]:We have all of that on microfilm, so Kitty has been researching that on microfilm.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, she has.

[Mrs. Cole]:I found an article written by Rupert Payton in 1951 which was I think when it was first formed but it wasn't as organized as it was the next year, because the next year is when you had the first Queen.

[Ms. Coyle]:In 1952.

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, and let's see, that had to have been…well, that first year we had a crazy situation come into play. What was that deal, before we actually got the Queen organization going it was publicized and how beautiful it was and people drove up. You talk a real cloud of dust.

[Ms. Coyle]:I think the paper said twelve thousand people came that first year.

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't know how many people it was.

[Mrs. Cole]:So you almost had to get it organized because you didn't want people to have all that dust drifting over to Caddo Parish (laughing).

[Mayor Sanders]:(Laughing) That's right. I'll have to say it was something special and he was a good man.

[Ms. Coyle]:He really was.

We've been fascinated by the mantle and the crown that the Queens wore. Do you have any idea who made that mantle because it was obviously passed down each year?

[Mayor Sanders]:It was passed down, but I really don't know.

[Ms. Coyle]:It was a gorgeous, elaborate, beautiful thing! I know we had a lot of seamstresses here in town.

[Mayor Sanders]:And they all pitched in to help to make that thing a success.

[Ms. Coyle]:I wonder where they kept that from year to year? Did Ms. Rita be a part of that, I wonder?

[Mayor Sanders]:She was involved in it. She was involved in everything.

[Ms. Coyle]:Yeah, she was involved in everything.

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't know whether or not she kept it or not. She might have, I just don't know. She was at the library working you know.

[Ms. Coyle]:That same mantle, you know the last Queen wore it, you know, Donna Rodgers, it was kept for like a twelve year span.

[Mrs. Cole]:We are getting lots of photographs of former Queens that show them wearing the mantel but they don't seem to know anything about it. But, I don't think that the Queens were in on any of the "loop" there. They were just honored to be Queens.

[Mayor Sanders]:And scared to death! Because they were the focal point in the parade and all that kind of stuff.

[Ms. Coyle]:We don't really know who made it or where it was kept or what happened to it. We've been trying to figure out what happened to it. You never kept it at the store, did you?

[Mayor Sanders]:No.

[Ms. Coyle]:I know that Miss Athelene Cornish was real involved in it. I thought she might have kept it.

[Mayor Sanders]:She might have kept it, because she was …

[Mrs. Cole]:One thing that we were really curious about was how did you determine who was going to be Queen?

[Mayor Sanders]:Seems like we had at one time, a contest type of thing for the prettiest and judges. I don't recall exactly.

[Ms. Coyle]:That was later. In the beginning, there was this committee that we all heard about. We never did know who was on it.

[Mayor Sanders]:No sir. They wouldn't let anyone know.

[Ms. Coyle]:You weren't on it?

[Mayor Sanders]:No. (laughing). I had a _________ woman one time, "Don't you tell anybody who's on it." But it was funny, she said, "I won't tell. I will not tell."

[Mrs. Coyle]:Did you know who there were?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:But you wouldn't ever tell?

[Mayor Sanders]:No, I would never tell.

[Mrs. Cole]:Did they change year after year? Or was it pretty much the same committee?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. We had the Dogwood Association Reception and I got roped into it. I got roped into a lot of other stuff you know. I didn't do a very good job of it; they could have gotten somebody else.

[Ms. Coyle and Mrs. Cole]:Oh no.

[Mrs. Cole]:We've got lots of pictures of you crowning all those Queens.

[Ms. Coyle]:Did the Dogwood Association choose the Secret Committee? How were they chosen? Do you know?

[Mayor Sanders]:I believe they chose the Committee. I believe that's how it went.

[Ms. Coyle]:But they kept it a secret because everybody that I had talked to (my mother, and everybody), they guess you know they have guesses about it, but they really don't know.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right.

[Mrs. Cole]:I've heard that Mrs. Doles was one of the ones that were on the Committee.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, she might have been. For some women were active out in the community. They just wanted to serve you know, and they would say just let me start with this. It wasn't an honor really to be on those Committees it was a public service.

[Ms. Coyle]:It was a chore, wasn't it?

[Mayor Sanders]:A chore, but no really, it was an honor. It was a severe hardship for those who served.

[Mrs. Cole]:The Queens don't seem to know because when I asked how did they find out and they would say, "Well, my mother called me when I was at school and the Committee called her." I would say, "Well who on the Committee?" and they don't know. So, even the mothers wouldn't tell!

[Mayor Sanders]:(Laughing) No. They don't want it out.

[Ms. Coyle]:I can't believe that a little town could keep a secret like that.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, you see everybody is afraid because nobody wanted to know, but I had something to do with picking Mary Jane here. She's as cute as can be, and ________.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's right. That would be the kind of thing that could tear a little town apart, couldn't it?

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right.

[Ms. Coyle]:It is amazing that it is still secret and that people still don't know.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right, but they kept it (secret). They vowed to not let anyone know and to tell who it was.

[Mrs. Cole]:Then Donna Rogers told us that she was the last Queen of the Dogwood Festival and that there was no Festival in 1966. Do you know why there was not a Festival that year?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yeah. It just began to run out, but I don't know exactly what took place. I hadn't even thought of it but..I don't guess I have that now, but I'm trying to think what…I sit down so long I forget…

[Ms. Coyle]:That's the way I am.

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't know that anything in here has to do with it (Looking at something on the table) gosh!

[Ms. Coyle]:With Dogwood? I would give anything in the world to find that mantle even if it was in terrible condition.

[Mrs. Cole]:And the scepter.

[Ms. Coyle]:Yes, and the scepter that had the little dogwood on it.

[Mrs. Cole]:The mantle was probably handmade here in Plain Dealing and that would be very interesting.

[Ms. Coyle]:Yes, it had to be. Do you know anybody that is still with us Leon that might know who made that? Any ladies? They are mostly gone, those ladies that were involved.

I wish we could have talked to Ms. Doles before she died. How long ago did Ms. Doles die, was it five or ten years ago? It hasn't been that long.

[Mayor Sanders]:I was trying to see if there was anything in there (looking for something).

[Mrs. Cole]:Well, it was just for the one year.

[Mayor Sanders]:This is when I got out of the thing.

[Ms. Coyle]:I've got all that. I saved that myself.

[Mayor Sanders]:I was thinking there was something in here, that it would talk about it.

[Mrs. Cole]:Yes, that it would talk about it some. It was just that one year, 1966, that the Festival was not held. Then it went to the contest for the Miss Louisiana and then it seems the Festival picked up again. So, we were just curious as to, well, like you said, it may have just played itself out.

[Mayor Sanders]:I'm not sure. It's a shame that all those things actually are history and someone should have made an effort to record it.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's right.

[Mrs. Cole]:Well, better late than never. We are doing our best.

[Ms. Coyle]:If we had known at the time, we should have kept talking to people and found out things. You know, you don't know at the time while history is going on that it is valuable until later.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's life, you just don't.

[Mrs. Cole]:Was that possibly the year that the timber was cut on the Trail? Do you remember that? Would that have been during that period or was that later on?

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't remember. Of course, it was always private property you know. They would sell the timber and we would ______________. I don't recall when they first (sold the timber).

[Ms. Coyle]:Was it owned by like, big companies, like oil companies? Different people?

[Mayor Sanders]:Some of them owned quite a bit of acreage and some of them owned just a little bit.

[Mrs. Cole]:I think the first year there is a picture of Peachy Gilmer, Dr. Peachy Gilmer that lists him as one of the property owners. He came for the dedication of one of the parks there, so I know he was one of the owners. But, he's the only one that has been identified so far.

[Ms. Coyle]:We are just thrilled to be doing something to honor the 50th Anniversary and you know, just trying to find out all we can about it.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well sure. Absolutely! I think that was so interesting because that was period in North Bossier Parish and it should be made a matter of record.

[Ms. Coyle]:And that was before like even the Redbud Festival in Vivian or any of the others. I wonder, I think the Natchitoches Christmas thing is older, but I'll bet that there are not many that are older than Dogwood.

[Mayor Sanders]:About in the first day, that involved…I mean to tell you the red cloud of dust. Red dust, and hundreds of cars coming down that trail! My Lord!

[Mrs. Cole]:So you would have to go out there and put water on it in subsequent years so you wouldn't be getting that dust over everybody?

[Mayor Sanders]:We tried to keep it down in the worse places, you know.

[Ms. Coyle]:I remember those old dirt roads and that red clay up there. (laughing). It was so pretty.

[Mayor Sanders]:You realize that hill out there, that one hill on the Trail, got to the top and went back up again and…

[Ms. Coyle]:Thrill Hill!

[Mayor Sanders]:And how that hill went to?

[Ms. Coyle]:I sure do.

[Mayor Sanders]:One time I was up there. In fact, I was going down to the Legion Hall and people coming in. And someone needed to sit there in case anyone had any problems up there, and we got up and there was a whole stream of cars. I thought what in the world has happened? I went on by and got around to that big hill, and you know they would get up to the top of that hill and they would wait until the car ahead had gotten up over it before they would go down. And they wouldn't take a chance. He would get up out the way and "Boo…ooh aahh…" It was a hard hill to pull. Folks coming out of Shreveport were not used to any roads like that you know. (laughing). It was real interesting.

[Ms. Coyle]:You know Sheila (Shiela Wells Coyle is Kitty's sister-in-law) had a wreck on that hill. You remember?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:Sheila and the little Bounds' girl, Jeannette Bounds, had a bad wreck there.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was a bad hill.

[Ms. Coyle]:It was. I remember the view where they said you could see over into Arkansas. Do you remember that?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yeah.

[Ms. Coyle]:That was so pretty.

[Mayor Sanders]:You got up there to that little spot and there was a crossing.

[Mrs. Cole]:Is the road still there?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, yes. The road is still there.

[Mrs. Cole]:Is it still a clay road, a dirt road?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, yeah. It has a little bit of improvement. It was not a much traveled road but then you go on a little further north and you hit the road going out to of course, the big thing back then was the Wardview, the Wardview out there in the Bottoms. There is no Wardview Road. It's still there and the store is still there.

[Mrs. Cole]:What was the name of the store out there? Do you remember?

[Mayor Sanders]:Ward had one store. It was called Wardview. No town, just they named it because the Wards lived out there, and they had a store and a building.

[Mrs. Cole]:Was it right on the River, Wardview?

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, you could see over to the River so yeah, it was. You go in both ways to the River. I remember one time, the River was up and we drove into off the Miller's Bluff Road (somebody had a boat there) and they put towed us in a boat and got us across the river bottoms and put us out of the boat. We rowed across the river bottoms in a boat.

[Mrs. Cole]:In a boat? Well, that's what made it such good farmland then?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yeah. They came in and settled and then periodically it would get a fresh supply of new dirt and it would settle and that was how it was. It didn't come rushing through, it just backed out. Of course, it basically rushed but mostly it just backed out of it. But that's a lot of trouble getting that thing to come across and "Boom," all the way across the River _________at the __________

[Ms. Coyle]:I remember my Daddy talking about going on calls in a boat out there when it was like that.

[Mrs. Cole]:And now there is nobody living out there. People were there for a hundred years.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was rare, very rare, but then you had a lot of people making a living out there…it was part of their home. They would have a horse and mule and ____________ and if the man says, "Time to sing the Swan song." (laughing)

[Ms. Coyle]:Sometimes I wish they wouldn't.

[Mayor Sanders]:Right.

[Ms. Coyle]:Leon, let me ask you one other question about the Committee, you don't have to answer it if you don't want to. I heard that they were all men, can you tell me if that was true or not?

[Mayor Sanders]:Gosh, I never thought about it. That probably was true, but I have never given it a thought.

[Ms. Coyle]:It seems hard to believe that those ladies would have kept out of it to me (laughing), but somebody told me that recently.

[Mayor Sanders]:I don't really know. (laughing) I don't think I have any way of…let me see.

[Ms. Coyle]:I tell you before I die, I would love to know who was on that Committee. I really would (laughing), just because it was such a mystery in our lives.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, I'll dig around and if I have any stuck back I'll let you know, but if …I don't know anywhere else that I would had something else stuck back, but I'm getting old …my mind…someone must have drilled a hole in it or something and thrown it away. (laughing)

[Ms. Coyle]:All my life there were a lot of rumors who was on it and I'd hear my mother and the other ladies talking about it and who was on it, but nobody ever really knew. They just didn't know.

[Mayor Sanders]:People get to feel their own age…so…

[Ms. Coyle]:It was a big deal. I remember that.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yeah. But those were interesting days, we had something that hundreds and hundreds of people came up to see. You know that first afternoon; I said, "what is happening with that red cloud in the Northwest?" They would go up that hill, stacks of cars and they would stop and let a car get up and he would go. One at a time.

[Ms. Coyle]:I'll bet y'all were surprised at the number of cars that showed up that first time.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh, we sure were. Yes sir. It was something!

[Ms. Coyle]:I remember when I was growing up on Dogwood Day you couldn't get across town.

END OF SIDE 1 625

Tape 1, Side B, [626-769]

[Mayor Sanders]:It was a good day for it.

[Ms. Coyle]:It sure was.

[Mrs. Cole]:I wish we could still go on the Trail and see some of the dogwoods.

[Ms. Coyle]:I would love to drive out there. You know, one time, when I moved back here in the '70's mother and I tried to go out there and we got lost. I'll tell you that scared me to death because you could get lost out there. We got lost in the dark coming out, so I would be kind of leery of going out there without somebody that knew where they were going.

[Mrs. Cole]:Or getting stuck in the mud that would be the other thing that you could have gotten into.

[Ms. Coyle]:I would love to see it again. I really would.

[Mayor Sanders]:In 1994 is not far enough back ______________

This (news article) right here it tells you something about what was taking place in 1968. Did you glance at it?

[Ms. Coyle]:This is when for a few years they just had the Festival without the Queen and then they started the beauty contest. Charlotte was the first one.

[Mrs. Cole]:We are going to try to talk to Charlotte Giles this morning too and see what she remembers about it since she was part of it in the '70's.

[Ms. Coyle]:You've got a lot of stuff, don't you?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, a lot of stuff. I ought to really get a schedule and alphabetize or whatever, date wise.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's what I keep telling myself.

[Mayor Sanders]:Because most of this stuff has an interest to people other than myself.

[Ms. Coyle]:Absolutely!

[Mayor Sanders]:I showed you this, didn't I?

[Ms. Coyle]:I don't think so.

[Mayor Sanders]:March 1879 to November 1882.

[Ms. Coyle]:Is that your grandfather's journal?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, my grandfather's journal.

[Ms. Coyle]:Isn't that something! That is really something.

[Mayor Sanders]:This was their life back in those days. He jotted down almost every breath he took.

[Ms. Coyle]:It makes me want to go home and do that.

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:Life is not as interesting now as it was then though.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh no. You know what you look at these things and you wonder how in the world did they make it? How did they make it?

[Ms. Coyle]:It's in real good shape, look at it. (Talking to Mrs. Cole). Isn't that amazing?

[Mayor Sanders]:I had marked this part, L. T. Sanders died, is that the one in 1883?

[Ms. Coyle]:I'll tell you it is in good condition.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's my grandpa. That was their life back in those days what is in that book.

[Mrs. Cole]:You have taken very good care of it.

[Mayor Sanders]:That was the story of how they lived. (Looking through things). There is a picture here I meant to show you that I did, a few pictures of my family.

[Ms. Coyle]:Is that Sandy?

[Mayor Sanders]:That's the "Pistol," Adam.

[Ms. Coyle]: Oh, Adam! Yeah. That's his grandson. You know they made a movie about Pistol Pete Maravich.

[Mrs. Cole]:Oh, I remember that. That's your grandson?

[Ms. Coyle]:Where is he now?

[Mayor Sanders]:He's out in Santa Fe, New Mexico.

[Ms. Coyle]:He's out there where Katherine is?

[Mrs. Cole]:What's he doing out in Santa Fe?

[Mayor Sanders]:I forget now but he's in the map business.

[Ms. Coyle]:Katherine lives in Santa Fe? I forget now, your daughter Katherine lives in New Mexico.

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, she lives in Santa Fe.

[Ms. Coyle]:Look at him, isn't he cute? We thought he might go on to be a big movie star after that, didn't we?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. I thought for sure he would, but that was the only movie he ever made (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:Pete Maravich picked him out to do the role.

[Mayor Sanders]:They had a lot of boys, a lot of people, who were interested in that thing, but he picked that boy out to be the guy that played his part.

[Mrs. Cole]:Did he live in Baton Rouge, is that where they found him?

[Ms. Coyle]:No, he lived up here and he just went and tried out, isn't that right?
And there were thousands of boys and Pete Maravich is the one that picked them.

[Ms. Coyle]:They were living in Shreveport at the time, weren't they?
Paula and her family at the time of this?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:At the time of this. I remember he used to come to Plain Dealing and do all the little things at the church.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:I saw Paula the other day and she was telling me how y'all were doing and she told me that you would be glad to talk to me anytime.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh sure. Anytime. Anything that I can do to recall and you know, my mind is leaving me…I wonder why! (laughing)

[Ms. Coyle]:I think you do real well.

[Mayor Sanders]:Like I said, I think someone has punched a hole in the top of my head and slowly it's just drifting out.

[Ms. Coyle]:Well, we all get that way I guess, but I think you do great!

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, thank you. Thank you. Recalling this stuff does help. It really does.

[Ms. Coyle]:It's good for you to talk about it.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes it is. I think it very good.

[Ms. Coyle]:How is Margaret doing?

[Mayor Sanders]:She's doing fairly well.

[Ms. Coyle]:That's good.

[Mayor Sanders]:She's not suffering at all.

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, this is…Adam Guier, thirteen year old, plays Pete Maravich.

[Ms. Coyle]:His daughter, Paula, went to Centenary and she was the beauty at Centenary. Wasn't she Leon? What do they call that the Lady of the Bracelet, or something like that?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yeah.

[Ms. Coyle]:She got the biggest honor for Centenary students.

[Ms. Coyle]:Yes. It's too bad that quit having Dogwood Queens, because she probably would have been the Queen, don't you think?

[Mrs. Cole]:(Joking) Oh, I don't know, that committee. You've got to watch out for that committee. You don't want to be showing any favoritism (laughing).
Having the Mayor crown his own daughter.

[Ms. Coyle]:So, he's in New Mexico. Your daughter, Katherine, does she live in Santa Fe or somewhere else?

[Mayor Sanders]:She's in Santa Fe.

[Ms. Coyle]:Sandy is out in California?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. He's out in California also. It's not right close to the coast.

[Ms. Coyle]:In San Diego or something?

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes. Close to that.

[Ms. Coyle]:Scattered far!

[Mayor Sanders]:Yes, that's right, scattered far. You know I tell them, I say, "Look I worry about them being out there. If you get sick, who's going to take care of you?" They say, well "We worry about you too."

[Ms. Coyle]:I worry about them having an earthquake out there.

[Mayor Sanders]:That's right. Yes sir. There's all kind of things out there.

[Ms. Coyle]:We hope you will come when we have the Reception on Dogwood Day in the morning. It's on April 7, at the Library.

[Mayor Sanders]:Are you going to publicize it?

[Ms. Coyle]:We hope to.

[Mrs. Cole]:We will send you an invitation.

[Mayor Sanders]:Good. That way, I'll remember it! (laughing).

[Ms. Coyle]:We are not sure how many of the former Queens are going to be there, but we know that Marilyn Barnett will be there and Donna Rodgers, and Marcie Nelson and Jack Gore.

[Mayor Sanders]:Where are all of those girls now?

[Ms. Coyle]:You know Marcie lives in Rocky Mount. Marcie Ford?

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yeah. Yeah. I didn't realize that she's out there.

[Ms. Coyle]:She and her husband, Ray Nelson. They built a house there. They go to my church.

Do you remember Patria? Patria Nell Baker? Rogers now. She's coming or she says she's coming. So we know we will have at least five or six and we hope that we will have more than that.

[Mrs. Cole]:Maybe Addie Sue, because she is close enough.

[Ms. Coyle]:We hope she will come. The only problem with some of them is that it is on Palm Sunday weekend and some people come home on Easter. So, they might not want to come home the weekend before Easter. But even if we just have four or five we will have a good time visiting.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, what are you doing?

[Ms. Coyle]:We are going to have a display. We are working on it. Nita is a professional in doing exhibits. So, we are going to have an exhibit and refreshments and we will have a movie going, you know, that people can watch. So, it will be fun! Put that on your calendar.

[Mayor Sanders]:It will be fun!

[Mrs. Cole]:Thank you so much for letting us come in and talk to you.

[Mayor Sanders]:I appreciate you coming because for me This history is of interest to a lot of people. At least that's what I think.

[Ms. Coyle]:Absolutely. When you think when something is fifty years old, you have to observe it.

[Mayor Sanders]:Oh yes.

[Ms. Coyle]:You have to observe important dates and events in lives in the communities and so forth. I didn't want to let it go by without doing something special.

[Mayor Sanders]:Well, thank you and I will see y'all there.

[Ms. Coyle]:Well, we thank you so much.

[Mayor Sanders]:It was my pleasure and thank you.

End of Tape, Side B 769.

People

Sanders, Leonidas "Leon", Jr.

Search Terms

Plain Dealing
Oral History

Lexicon category

6: T&E For Communication

Interview date

2001-02-21

Interviewer

Kitty Coyle and Nita Cole

Recording media

Cassette Tape

Lexicon sub-category

Sound Communication T&E

Inventoried date

2025-06-12